Hi
I just wanted to see what peoples views are on defining if you have 'been' to a country.
If you fly from the UK to Kenya for example but then get another flight directly out to Tanzania without leaving the airport, have you been to Kenya?
If I am travelling by train within europe but do not get off the train and pass through several countries - have I been to them?
What If i drive specifically to Andorra, Liechtensten, or Monaco but never get out of the car, Have I been there?
Do you have to have spent a certain amount of time there or have spent money? I have been to several countries but have never spent the night there but have definitely 'been'.
What do you think?
Lots of people would define
Lots of people would define having been to a country as staying the night, but then of course almost no-one has been to, say, the Vatican City. I have been on several day trips to Bruges, Belgium and yet people tell me I have not been there. I define having been to a country as having stood on a county's soil (or being in a vehicle which was on a country's land) or having been in or on a river that belonged to that country. I do not, however, count territorial ocean water or airspace, but I would count a connecting flight.
Well I havent spent the
Well I havent spent the night in Luxembourg, Uruguay, Paraguay, Vatican or Monaco but I have definitely been to all of them.
I'm not sure I would count the airport thing as you are technically on the wrong side of passport control so not legally in the country despite being within its borders. I think 'legally' standing on the soil is something I would regard as confirmation and thus maybe being on a train or bus or car through a country doesnt count as having been as you have in no way interracted with it.
The way I see it, wherever
The way I see it, wherever I am I must be somewhere. For example, when I go to Bruges we drive over French soil to get there. At the start of the journey I am in England, at the end I am in Belgium, but in the middle I am not nowhere- I am in France. If the car were to stop for petrol, would that make the France trip more legitimate? That is what I use the "In transit" ticks for on my profile page: just travelling through a country without doing anything else.
On the other hand, I also count returning to my home country as a "visit", which some people seem to find controversial, but its what I feel is right. I have seen others on this website who do this, but the whole concept of a visit varies from person to person.
Have I been there?
I think you've been there if you travel through by car or train - you probably see more of the country than someone who's spent two weeks in an all-inclusive hotel and never left the resort. What does it matter if you didn't spend the night there? I think it is up to the individual how they count it - it's not a competition after all.
I don't personally count countries where I've just transitted in the airport and all I saw was the Duty Free shops.
Travelling through a country by road
I would have thought that most people on this site would try to get out of their vehicle, if only for a few minutes, while they were travelling through a country, because they are interested in travel. It would make me feel that I had a more genuine claim to have visited that country. Otherwise it is hardly any different to flying over a country.
My Explanation....
I think that if you have spent time in that country - even if just a day trip - that it should count on at least some level. In Europe for example there are lots of countries close together - come families can take a day trip and go to a different country and still be back home the same day. I guess it also depends on what you do. If you only go straight from the airport to the hotel then back again - I wouldn't cound that as being in the country because you wouldn't get a chance to acctually "see" the City/Country/Culture/ECT. that way. Even something as simple as going to a local market in poorer country can be a big eye opener for someone say from USA or England - something new which gives you the "feel" of being somewhere new.
★☆ ミキ ☆★
Airside / immigration.
I flew from Toronto via Miami to San Salvador. I had to clear US immigration whilst 'still in Canada'. I wasn't even in the country (US) physically but was legally. Didn't go through immigration at Miami and still had visa waiver green card when I arrived in El Salvador. Tried to handed same upon return to Miami. "Hand both in when you leave".
I entered both visits as 'in transit'. If a new country this would show up as so.
As has been stated previously it's not not a competion, there's no prize to be won so doesn't really make any difference what somebody 'claims' they have done.
Keep on ticking.
Passport control does not make for a visit
The problem with this standard is that sometimes you clear immigration in a country without actually entering the country. For example, if you fly from the USA to Austria via Frankfurt, you clear passport control in Germany (as it is the first point of entry into the Schengen Zone) even though all you're doing is getting on another plane. Similarly, international transit through Canada or the USA involves clearing customs (and sometimes, even reclaiming your luggage and entering the landside area).
My standard for international flights is that if I leave the airport premises (or take a subsequent domestic flight entirely within the confines of the country, even if it involves an international connection on the other end), I will consider myself having visited that country. If I don't leave the airport, even if I am fully through customs and otherwise free to leave, it is only an "in transit" visit.
As for trains, if I remain on the train the entire time it is in that country, it is an "in transit" visit. The country where I alight or disembark counts as a full visit.
Not everywhere is a country...
Interesting points (ValuJet, 7/9/08), but the main problem with this seems to be the assumption that everywhere is "in a country" in at least some sense, which makes it difficult for (say) a passenger on a ship in international waters. (Even taking the ship's nationality gives a problem in that a unique place, as defined by longitude / latitude, in international waters, could then count as any 'country'). The more extreme example is astronauts on an international space station, or even the moon.
The corollorary of overflying a country and 'counting' that as a visit, also just feels unstatisfactory (though it's not clear whether that's how the contributor would regard it!).
However, though I have some sympathy for the argument that if you're travelling on a train or in a car through a country but don't get out then you can't count it, personally I support this contributor's position, at least for when one is 'legally' within that country; I'm still struggling with the East Germany Question, involving trains which used to cross between West Berlin and the rest of what was West Germany / BRD, wherein boarding or alighting within East Germany was forbidden (and physically prevented by border guards!), yet one still got a transit stamp in the passport.
Finally, I tend to regard periods of time in one's own country - or, rather, the country in which one is ordinarily resident if different - as where one is when NOT doing any visiting of countries! (OK, I've got one UK visit in my log, but only to get it included in 'places I have been'!)
I would not count flying
I would not count flying over a country, I just feel that somehow being in someway touching another country's soil means I am there, so I would count a visit as soon as a plane lands rather than after immigration control. I have never actually had to have a connecting flight through another country, but an airport is my entire travel in Kentucky.
Airport's don't count if you stay airside
I would agree. A visit to an airport does not count as a visit to the country, as you have not legally entered the country until you have passed immigration. This is my measure - if I have passed through immigration, I count that as a visit.